The Case Against Gameplay Loops
by coinfused on 4/14/2026, 11:26:25 AM
https://blog.joeyschutz.com/the-case-against-gameplay-loops/
Comments
by: throw4847285
The fact that this article does not mention the word "roguelike" once is quite telling. The argument that gameplay loops are a relic of arcades falls flat when you realize that Rogue came out in 1980, the same year as Pac-man. The entire argument falls flat when you realize that a gameplay loop is simply another way of explaining the means of interactivity, and interactivity is core to the idea of video games. Even the shortest narrative game has a "loop" of some kind.<p>Honestly, when I read essays like this I always have to ask: have games changed, or have you? I had what felt like infinite time as a kid to devote to gaming, and as I've aged, my relationship to video games has changed substantially. I can relate to wanting more bite sized experiences, but then again, a single run of a roguelike, the ultimate "gameplay loop" can feel just as satisfying as a short narrative game.<p>There are plenty of valid complaints to lodge against modern game design, but I think the author's framing is flawed.
4/14/2026, 2:27:28 PM
by: everdrive
A lot of modern games have put a lot of time into their gameplay loop, and in part, this is why a lot of modern games feel like work. Focusing on this too much really can crowd out spontaneous fun. A gameplay loop also does not guarantee that a game is fun. Your loop might be: deploy --> shoot bad guys --> loot things --> come home --> process loot. None of this guarantees that the game is actually fun. Maybe the enemy design sucks, or the weapons feel bad, or the game just feels grindy.<p>In this way, it feels a lot like modern movies: in a lot of cases, cinematography seems to be some sort of objective science which has mostly just improved. And nowadays even a fairly bad movie will have great cinematography. It's just that the writing / plot / acting / etc. are quite poor.<p>That is, a proven gameplay loop can still fall flat quite badly. Easy examples would be all the modern hero shooters / looter shooters.<p>It's also worth noting that the definition of what constitutes a "gameplay loop" is pretty loosely defined. 1993 Doom clearly has a gameplay loop in the strict sense of the word: start level --> get weapons / ammo --> get keys --> kill monsters --> exit level. But this feels much less mechanical and gameified than your average modern game which almost certainly incorporate things such as RPG mechanics / stats / level-ups / FOMO events, etc. The latter feels much more artificial and forced, whereas Doom feels like "just playing a game."
4/14/2026, 1:55:05 PM
by: jayd16
Games fundamentally require loops because they require skill. You learn through failure and repetition.<p>Games have the trouble that users have very different appetites for the gameplay. Some want short games, some want 1000s of hours for their $50. Devs do their best to provide a reasonable amount of content. This means that the reality is that most will not 100% complete your game and so you need to tune accordingly.<p>Its not fundamentally wrong to play a game until you're satisfied. Ideally the game can be structured in a way that the core story thread can be finished by then but sometimes that just doesn't work out.
4/14/2026, 1:41:27 PM
by: havblue
I suppose I've reached a similar points with a decent number of games recently such as Claire Obscur or the Oblivion remake. The game isn't doing anything wrong but I just conclude that it's work and move on to something else. Still, there are a ton of very good movies on Tubi I could be watching, books I could be reading and a dog I could be walking. These are typically guilt-free loops unless the book is monotonous, so the advice is to read something harder.<p>As far as a game that didn't become a repetitive loop I'll praise UFO 50 for having a ton of challenging variety at least and you'll quickly discover a different challenge every time you switch to a different title. Overall I think what you need to recognize is not whether you complete a game, it's whether you feel rewarded for your time spent. If not, just plant a victory flag in whatever achievement you just obtained and move on, nobody will judge.
4/14/2026, 4:11:35 PM
by: nottorp
It really depends on the loop, but modern games try their damnedest to ruin the experience.<p>Number one is of course "free" games, where the loop is infinite and designed for you to give in and get IAPs to accelerate it.<p>But the problem is older than that. I kind of blame it on a generation of designers that spent a lot of time in world of warcraft and its successors and somehow decided having a slow grind is acceptable in single player games as well.
4/14/2026, 2:21:17 PM
by: latexr
> For indies, the pressure to clear the 2 hour mark was hung ominously overhead when Valve updated their policy to allow refunds up to that threshold.<p>If the game is good, I doubt most people would return it. “The Dark Queen of Mortholme”¹ comes to mind. I didn’t really find it enjoyable (good idea, boring execution) but the reviews praise it and I do get why.<p>The game takes 30 minutes from beginning to end. Maybe you’ll do 90 minutes if you want to try multiple things, but you can do everything in under two hours. And yet it’s a success, not a return fest.<p>¹ <a href="https://store.steampowered.com/app/3587610/The_Dark_Queen_of_Mortholme/" rel="nofollow">https://store.steampowered.com/app/3587610/The_Dark_Queen_of...</a>
4/14/2026, 11:54:00 AM
by: i_c_b
(I'm a game designer, so I can't help but respond to this as a designer first, and not primarily a player)<p>I wonder how much of the issue here is the rise of the abstraction of "gameplay loop" itself as a lens that shapes what gets made.<p>One of the things that can keep a game fresh is players being unclear on where the border of play is, or what the range of the possible is. When I was playing Mario 64, say, I really wasn't clear on what was possible in the game, and so one of the main pleasures of playing the game was encountering new kinds of interactions and new kinds of activities embedded in specific space that I didn't know would be in the game. Same experience with Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. As a matter of fact, this was true for me when I was first playing through the original Half-Life and the original Metal Gear Solid as well, or Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. The boundaries of the possible were not clear, and I had to play to tease them out. There was something like an implicit promise (because those games were violating my expectations early) that I might see and do stuff I hadn't seen and done yet if I stuck with the game.<p>Refined gameplay loops with variation are certainly cool and a great and an important tool, and many games I love do rely heavily on them (like, say, Slay the Spire, or the original Doom deathmatch as a kind of competitive play, or Street Fighter 3). But my general sense is that the more designers think in terms of game play loops, the earlier the edges of a game design and limits on the realm of the possible become clear for a player in a subconscious way. In a way, this is similar to a player noticing early that they seem to have heard all the music a game is going to provide, or seem to have seen all the enemies or weapons early - they recognize they've found all the novel stuff they're going to find, and everything going forward is going to be re-combinations and permutations. But I think it's a little harder to reason about when it comes to a player discerning the limitations of what kinds of play they will ultimately encounter, because it's a bit more subtle of an issue.<p>There's something here about the aesthetics of open-ended discovery versus the pleasures of achievement, I think, perhaps in something like a fractal sense.<p>I think there's a lurking development tension here, too. Constrained variations within game play loops can often help constrain arbitrary interactions in game play code, and arbitrary interactions in game play code make systems harder to reason about, and balance, and ensure stability, and modularly farm out different tasks to different developers. So I suspect there are development reasons for preferring these kinds of designs as well.
4/14/2026, 3:31:37 PM
by: adithyassekhar
If we are bring reductive, the grand theft auto games were drive here, shoot that kind of deal. Call of duty was shoot till objective completes until 4 came around. Those never felt repetitive to me because there was a story going on, there was a deep lore to the characters and places in the map and those were changing with me.<p>I can still replay them to completion. Feel relieved when help arrives after securing the little hill after normandy beach in call of duty 2. It takes so long but it’s worth it.<p>I’ve only ever felt the core gameplay loop repetitive on strategy games where every new challenge is the same one as last but bigger with a more complex inventory if that makes sense.
4/14/2026, 1:42:58 PM
by: SiempreViernes
> For books, I track my reading habits and I finish around 85% of the books I start. For games (which I do not track diligently…) there is no way I am even hitting 33%. I do not finish games. But it doesn’t seem to be something about my media habits at large,<p>Here I spontaneously wondered how many of his meals Joey finishes, that feels like it would be about as relevant information as the two numbers he gives here: there's just not obvious how one helpfully compares the Lord of the Rings book with the video game Celeste.
4/14/2026, 2:00:41 PM
by: MetaWhirledPeas
One beautiful thing about loops is that they allow smaller teams to create games. The loop is <i>content</i> and takes real, hard work. When you play a "do everything" game like Breath of the Wild or one of the modern Final Fantasy games the amount of content is staggering and completely unapproachable by most small teams.<p>Another beautiful thing about loops is that they enable short sessions. I love games like this. You can sit there for a few minutes, enjoy your time, then move on to other things. Wordle is like this. I love games that are content to be played occasionally.<p>I like your example of Bolero. This is a good formula for longer games: iterate on the loop and have it slowly transform and crescendo as the game moves on. I would argue one mistake some games make is that they want a lengthy game but they don't do the Bolero thing; the experiences late in the game are not meaningfully different from the experiences earlier in the game. Even games without stories have an arc, and if you don't manage that arc then yeah I can see why people would end up getting bored.
4/14/2026, 3:28:08 PM
by: georgeecollins
This is a good, thoughtful article.<p>Fun fact: Jeff Gardiner, who is quoted in the article, was hired by me for his first job in the video games as a junior level designer. Yay me!
4/14/2026, 1:48:17 PM
by: Fricken
Children are entertained by open sandbox games like Minecraft and Robolox, where the narrative and gameplay loop are whatever they want it to be.<p>Adults have largely forgotten how to use their imagination, or how to set their own objectives, and when they play games they're mostly just chasing gold stars. They want to follow a list of instructions and then receive a pat on the head for having done so correctly.<p>I'm still in the kid-box, I want games where I can explore, experiment, and set my own goals. It's amazing how hard it can be to find games that simply drop you into a world with some some cool gameplay mechanics and let you go nuts.
4/14/2026, 3:35:22 PM
by: pwillia7
No game loop feels impossible unless you're just making a movie you click through...<p>Game loops should be invisible as once a player can see or sense them it breaks the immersion.
4/14/2026, 2:37:46 PM
by: snarfy
One of my current favorite games is aimlabs. Click as many dots as you can in 60 seconds. There is no game, only skill.
4/14/2026, 2:57:40 PM
by: heyalexhsu
Interesting read. Nowadays, for most games, I do a few game loops and intentionally don't finish them. As a dad with two kids, I simply don't have that much time.<p>So I don't like games that have replay value or "endgame". I don't mind game loops but I want a game that finishes in 2-12 hours. 2 games that came to mind are Inscryption and Chants of Sennaar, both took around 12 hours and gave me a mindblowing experience.
4/14/2026, 1:55:29 PM
by: amonon
I really enjoyed this article, although I love games with gameplay loops and bounce hard off of games with narrative. I wonder what the author would think of Hades?
4/14/2026, 1:53:00 PM
by: bena
I've been playing Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth, trying to clear <i>my</i> game backlog as it were.<p>I think what the series does is to have multiple gameplay loops. Like a Dragon is the rebranding of the Yakuza series, of which Infinite Wealth is the 9 mainline entry in the series.<p>Yakuza 0-6 were effectively role playing games where the conflict resolution mechanism was a beat-em-up/fighting game. Seven represented a rebranding of the series and 8 is Infinite Wealth. These games change the core conflict resolution to a straight up Japanese RPG system.<p>However, in every game, there are minigames and sidestories to complete. They include racing circuit cars, Pokemon style battles, darts, pool, bowling, batting cages, management sims, mahjongg, poker, blackjack, koi-koi, dating sims, etc.<p>So I think they've addressed the problem by just giving you a <i>lot</i> of different gameplay loops, with the main story just a vehicle to allow you to get from loop to loop.
4/14/2026, 2:25:52 PM
by: ramesh31
Dave the Diver is the best game I've played in years, and its a new kind of game that I think really solves this. You focus on atmosphere, characters, and discrete game mechanics that work together as a system, rather than relying on any single gameplay loop. Mechanics are contextual, and introduced in a way that makes sense to the story and setting, leaving the player with that feeling of "I wonder what's next".
4/14/2026, 2:50:55 PM
by: jmyeet
I'm not sure the author realizes just how formulaic books, TV shows and movies are.<p>For movies, a hugely influential book in Hollywood is Save the Cat [1]. Once you understand this structure, you'll see it everywhere and it's quite prescriptive. Certain milestones are hit at a very specific percentage way through the movie.<p>Books and TV shows tend to follow the Three Act Structure [2]. Those turning point events will match up pretty closely to 25%, 50% and 75% through a book.<p>So the author doesn't really define gameplay loops and, reading through it, I'm not sure they know exactly what they mean. I say this because the first paragraph mentions things like "2 out of 5 chapters complete" and other such familiar elements. That's not really a gameplay loop. That's a <i>convention</i>. And there are lots of them like in-game achievements, cosmetics, load outs, etc.<p>Think of any battle royale game and you'll find the same elements across the genre. A drop in, supply drops, abilities and/or weapons and so on. Fortnite, PUBG, Warzone, etc can have 95% of the same features mapped across each other.<p>Roguelikes have many of the same conventions: gear acquisition, power progression, dungeon delving, etc.<p>New genres don't come around that often and a lot of what we're talking about here is really genres.<p>A gameplay loop is really the cycle of action, reward and progression. The issue isn't how repetitive this <i>is</i>, it's how repetitive it <i>feels</i>. Take a game like GTA or RDR. It absolutely has gameplay loops with missions/quests. Or Breath of the Wild has shrines. But these games are beloved in spite of that.<p>I think the underlying problem is that big companies in particular want a repeatable, proven formula for all content. That's something that can be tracked and is predictable. Doing something novel or innovative is far riskier and really a lot harder.<p>I'm reminded of a scene from The Office where Gabe said "Maybe the filmmaker realized that even narrative is comforting" in response to this disturbing genre of horror movies he liked.<p>At the end of the day, games are fundamentally different to books, movies and TV shows because the time played is highly variable. You do have more linear story telling games (eg the Walking Dead, etc) but repetition isn't really the problem (IMHO). I think the author is really reacting to nothing in their chosen genre feeling fresh. It feels samey. I don't think gameplay loops are the reason for that.<p>[1]: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Save_the_Cat!:_The_Last_Book_on_Screenwriting_You%27ll_Ever_Need" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Save_the_Cat!:_The_Last_Book_o...</a><p>[2]: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-act_structure" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-act_structure</a>
4/14/2026, 2:57:31 PM